Transcript of the Insider Exclusive Segment on Kimkins

Below is the transcript of the Insider Exclusive segment on the Kimkins Diet fraud, for those who can't watch it for whatever reason. It features John Tiedt and Michael Cohen of Tiedt & Hurd, a cardiologist (who, in my I-have-a-doctorate-in-biochemistry opinion, could benefit in a refresher course on the difference between fatty acid metabolism and gluconeogenesis) and our very own Magicsmom, a lovely lady with a lot of guts.

This is an unofficial transcript. The copyright for the show belongs to someone who is not me, and any mistakes in the transcript are my own. The segment uses clips from the Mike& Juliet Show as well as the Good Morning America segment on Kimkins. I did not transcribe those parts, but you can see a full transcription of the Good Morning America segment here. You can also see a transcript of the Mike & Juliet Show on Kimorexia's blog.

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT

[Clips from the Mike & Juliet show, not transcribed]

STEVE MURPHY: I am very pleased to have with us today John Tiedt of the law firm Tiedt & Hurd. Welcome to the show.

JOHN TIEDT: Thank you very much.

STEVE MURPHY: We’re going to bring your co-counsel on here in a minute, but before we do that – this show is about health care fraud. And it’s about one particular multi-million dollar scam which is a diet scam. It’s called the Kimkins Diet scam.

JOHN TIEDT: Yes, that’s right.

STEVE MURPHY: Tell us a little bit about how you got involved and what is this thing anyway?

JOHN TIEDT: Well, what it is, it’s an internet diet program. You go on the internet and you click on this website, you pay fifty nine dollars and when you get on the website they give you a diet program. They tell you precisely what to eat and what to do. And in this particular case you’re told to take as little as five hundred calories a day. You’re also instructed that – to use laxatives at times. You’re a- also have an internet – like a chat room where you can chat with other dieters. When you’re on the website, also, you see the miraculous transformations, the unbelievable success stories, and, ah, I found out they actually were unbelievable. What happened when you get on the site, you’ll see a picture of a beautiful lady named Kimmer who lost two hundred pounds in only eleven months. What happened was that Kimmer was supposed to be the founder of the Kimkins diet. And in reality, she is a morbidly obese woman from Corona that never lost two hundred pounds, that for her before picture, she used her actual before picture, and this is Heidi Diaz (referring to video of Heidi Diaz in a grocery store). But for the after picture, which is the “after diet” picture, she used a picture of a Russian model, named Leysa, I think it is. She not only did it for herself, she had approximately thirty five other false testimonials on there. You see a beautiful woman which is, in most cases, a Russian model, who claims to be from some particular state in the United States. They, in the website, there’s a claim that this particular person lost a great deal of weight, a hundred pounds, let’s say. In reality, this never happened, it’s all fraud. But it worked on the public. People who saw these wonderful testimonials they are people who were obese, they had hope, you know, for – to avoid gastric bypass surgery. So, they naturally went with it.

STEVE MURPHY: Now, taking this diet, and spending the money – first of all, she’s fraudulently declaring she lost weight, it works for her, but there’s dangers involved with this diet program. What are those dangers?

JOHN TIEDT: Well, this is what we’ve seen. We’ve had complaints from users of the diet from hair loss, um, if you lose a significant amount of weight on a low-calories diet that’s one of the dangers. Another danger is, especially with the use of laxatives, is irregular heartbeat, arrhythmias. We’ve had one particular woman -- was rushed to the emergency room with an arrhythmia, an irregular heartbeat. There are other problems that you will have with ketosis which is the shut-down of the amount of calories that you get, you start eating your own protein. You become lethargic and you have absolutely no energy. We had quite a few complaints like that.

STEVE MURPHY: There was an endorsement by a magazine which really pushed this diet program all across the country. Was it Woman’s World?

JOHN TIEDT: Yes, it was.

STEVE MURPHY: And, then a lot – a lot more victims seemed apply for this, bought it, and that’s basically how you got involved, right?

JOHN TIEDT: Well, that’s right. The women that were looking for an attorney wanted someone who was in California, that had a background in litigating against dietary supplement companies and diet companies. Also, I was on the Health Fraud Task Force in California. And, this product was typical of some of the products we’ve seen with regard to the California Health Fraud Task Force. What people like Heidi Diaz do – they prey on people’s hope and fears. For example, in this case a lot of women feared gastric bypass surgery and the hope to avoid that was this particular diet program. So, I think I was a good candidate for the job, and when I got the case, I analyzed it and it fell right in line with a lot of the cases I handled in the past that had false testimonials and that provided a dangerous diet product. So naturally, it was a good candidate for a class-action lawsuit.

STEVE MURPHY: Now, you have deposed Heidi Diaz, haven’t you?

JOHN TIEDT: I have, on two occasions.

STEVE MURPHY: Okay and right now we’re going to go to that deposition that video deposition, to show exactly what she says. But as it plays out, I want you to comment a little bit about – what’s her whole approach on this whole thing.

JOHN TIEDT: Well, her approach to this diet was that if people were to see these wonderful testimonials, they would rely on those testimonials and purchase the product.

STEVE MURPHY: Right.

JOHN TIEDT: Which is the subscription.

STEVE MURPHY: Right.

JOHN TIEDT: She said some of that in a deposition. She knew she was not telling the truth. She knew that prospective members would rely on her representations.

STEVE MURPHY: Right.

JOHN TIEDT: And she testified to that under oath.

STEVE MURPHY: Let’s go to that video right now.

JOHN TIEDT: Okay

-- Begin Video Clip of November 12, 2007 Deposition of Heidi Diaz –

HEIDI DIAZ: I had thought it was time to just come clear. People were unhappy – some people were unhappy and we would give an offer of a refund. I want – I would like the website to be nice again, without the fighting and the bickering.

JOHN TIEDT: Did you ever weight it out in your mind that your privacy interests are not outweighed by the need of your customers to know the truth –

HEIDI DIAZ: Oh.

JOHN TIEDT: -- about your purported weight loss using the Kimkins Diet.

HEID DIAZ: No, I don’t – I think differently. And I did not.

JOHN TIEDT: Why?

HEIDI DIAZ: Um, well, privacy is something that is important to me and I wanted to encourage others towards weight loss, which we have done. Um, that’s it.

JOHN TIEDT: So at the time you felt that your privacy interests outweighed your obligation to tell the truth to the public, is that correct?

HEIDI DIAZ: I wanted to motivate people. I didn’t see how myself was part of that.

JOHN TIEDT: So that’s a yes?

HEIDI DIAZ: Okay.

-- End Video Clip of November 12, 2007 Deposition of Heidi Diaz –

STEVE MURPHY: As you can see, she doesn’t deny this at all.

JOHN TIEDT: Oh, yeah, she’s still (inaudible)

STEVE MURPHY: I mean, her whole point is, people did lose weight. Well, you will lose weight if you don’t eat, right?

JOHN TIEDT: Absolutely.

STEVE MURPHY: So, the real issue is, she’s kind of almost acting as an unauthorized, unlicensed doctor, isn’t she?

JOHN TIEDT: Well, we also point out in the deposition that she has absolutely no medical background.

STEVE MURPHY: Mmm hmm.

JOHN TIEDT: She’s not a nutritionist. She has no background in pharmacology. She has no science background. She knew nothing about the ramifications of a low-calorie diet.

STEVE MURPHY: But I want to point out one thing – from what you told me, she didn’t even care.

JOHN TIEDT: No, she didn’t care. Because her response is, ‘they lost weight.’

STEVE MURPHY: Mmm hmm.

JOHN TIEDT: And in fact, we’ve had one of their administrators say, ‘So what if I lose hair? It doesn’t matter.’ ’

STEVE MURPHY: Yeah.

JOHN TIEDT: But that’s actually a very serious sign that your body’s shutting down.

STEVE MURPHY: There are how many women in this class action suit?

JOHN TIEDT: We have over forty thousand people who subscribed to Heidi’s diet program. We have right now seven class representatives.

STEVE MURPHY: How many – how much money did they pay on an average?

JOHN TIEDT: Well, the most commonly – about fifty-nine dollars.

STEVE MURPHY: Sixty bucks. That’s two and a half million dollars. We’re going to talk about where that money went in a minute, but I want to bring on your co-counsel, Michael Cohen, so we’ll do that right now.

[Clips from the Mike & Juliet show not transcribed]

STEVE MURPHY: I’m please to have with us Michael Cohen.

MICHAEL COHEN: It’s a pleasure.

STEVE MURPHY: Thank you for being with us. You are the co-counsel on the case?

MICHAEL COHEN: That’s right.

STEVE MURPHY: And before you came in, we were talking about the money. Heidi Diaz has collected two and a half million dollars, roughly?

JOHN TIEDT: Well, we won’t know for sure but it’s over two million. That’s our best estimate.

STEVE MURPHY: Now, you did a rather unusual thing when you certified this as a class. You actually have frozen her assets, haven’t you?

JOHN TIEDT: Well, it’s actually a little bit more peculiar. We haven’t certified yet. We filed a complaint, immediately. We tried to get a writ of attachment immediately, the first few days after filing.

STEVE MURPHY: Yes.

JOHN TIEDT: That was denied. I took her deposition, came back and filed a writ of attachment in an uncertified class action lawsuit and I got it. And as far as I know, and Mike can tell you, I’ve never heard of that being done before. In these cases, a lot of times, when the perpetrator committed a fraud, there – once they’re caught, the money’s long gone. We got lucky. We were at least able to freeze some of the assets in her PayPal account, and also freeze a house that she just bought for cash.

STEVE MURPHY: I saw on a news report that she wrote a check to the IRS for seven hundred thousand dollars, was that it?

JOHN TIEDT: Yes. This was done on a whim. You know, right after she found out her deposition was going to be taken, she decided to – on November 9, which was three days before her deposition, she wrote a check to the IRS for seven hundred thousand dollars because she knew I was coming.

STEVE MURPHY: Right.

JOHN TIEDT: Because I would have attached it. We attempted to do it, but the check had just cleared the bank.

STEVE MURPHY: Now, speaking about class certification (referring to Michael Cohen), I understand you’re the expert in that area.

MICHAEL COHEN: That’s right.

STEVE MURPHY: And where is that right now?

MICHAEL COHEN: We anticipate within the next month or so filing a motion for class certification and that’s a procedural device where we ask the court to certify it as a class. In other words, we can treat all forty-thousand members of the Kimkins website as part of the same lawsuit.

STEVE MURPHY: And you’ll be seeking to have their money sent back to them?

MICHAEL COHEN: As much as we can, yes.

STEVE MURPHY: So she hasn’t, I guess, spent all of it. Has she?

JOHN TIEDT: She dissipated some of it. She spent money on a house, which she bought for cash, close to five hundred thousand dollars. She’s paid taxes, which I don’t think she’s done in the last eight years. So, she does have money in other accounts right now and we’re looking to attach that as well.

[Clips from the GMA show, not transcribed]

STEVE MURPHY: There’s a couple of others things that makes your case a little unusual. What are they, Michael?

MICHAEL COHEN: Well, one is the very fact that it’s a class action. Although there are thousands of them, they don’t always get certified. And the reason it’s important in this particular case is that most of the people who are involved only lost fifty, or a hundred or two hundred dollars, while Miss Kimkins, Kimmer, made millions. And without this kind of procedural device to collect all the cases into one case, no one would be able to get any justice. And the other thing that’s important about this is we’re not just seeking a return of the funds to these people, but also what’s called injunctive relief. In other words, we want her to stop doing business and stop defrauding the public with her website and that’s as important as anything else.

STEVE MURPHY: From my understanding she has been at this before, with other types of products or schemes, hasn’t she?

JOHN TIEDT: Well, she has been accused on a number of occasions of using a false identity to acquire assets and credit. And in her deposition she had admitted to using a variety of different names, including male names.

STEVE MURPHY: Yes. Okay, one of the things that we saw in the videos of these victims was that there was some medical problems that occurred to them, and we’re going to bring on right now a doctor that can actually tell us what the problems are with a low carb diet that’s just totally, you know, not correct.

[Clips from the GMA show, not transcribed]

STEVE MURPHY: I’m very pleased to have with us today a medical doctor, Dr. Sammonini?

DR. SIMONINI: Simonini.

STEVE MURPHY: Simonini, who is at Cedars and Sinai?

DR. SIMONINI: Cedars Sinai Medical Center.

STEVE MURPHY: And you are a cardiac surgeon?

DR. SIMONINI: Cardiologist.

STEVE MURPHY: Cardiologist. Okay, you have come here today to talk a little bit about the dangers of a low carb diet or the dangers of – let’s be specific, of the Kimkins Diet.

DR. SIMONINI: Exactly.

STEVE MURPHY: Tell us about it.

DR. SIMONINI: Well, I mean the Kimkins Diet basically advocates starvation, they’re talking about taking five hundred calories a day or less and the danger with that (inaudible) one, you’re not getting enough calories to sustain normal body metabolism, normal body function.

STEVE MURPHY: What does a body usually need?

DR. SIMONINI: Well, the average man, about twenty-five hundred calories, the average woman about two thousand calories.

STEVE MURPHY: And if you don’t get that number of calories you’re actually burning what, a lot of --?

DR. SIMONINI: Well, actually, you go into starvation metabolism which you talk about ketosis, making ketones, talk about metabolizing proteins, breaking down muscle as a fuel source. Because remember, when you run out of glucose to burn, your body turns to muscle and breaking down protein to make more sugar to burn. And in a byproduct of that, the body uses fatty acids to try to metabolize, energize that process to make sugar out of protein. So then you get the ketones being produces and you get muscle breakdown. So basically you get a muscle wasting that goes on when you have that low of a calorie state. In addition, you have to remember that there’s lots of nutrients and supplements that people need to be taking, lots of vitamins, essential vitamins such as niacin, B-complex vitamins which are missing so when you’re in that low, starvation state and you’re not getting any of these calories, you end up missing a lot of the essential vitamins which can lead to heart problems, digestive problems, neurologic problems, and these are all things that can get exacerbated when you go further and further in the process of the diet.

STEVE MURPHY: With some diets that have been popular over the years, like the Atkins Diet and a variety of others, Jenny Craig, they have kind of a menu. Richard Simmons goes back to this, okay? How did she come up with a list of foods to eat, how did she recommend these things? Where did she get those?

JOHN TIEDT: Well, we’re in the process of acquiring that information, one thing we can already tell you is that she didn’t have the background in nutrition to formulate these diets. As a matter of fact, we’ve heard from experts that unlike Atkins, she didn’t have a balanced diet, that provided all the vitamins and minerals that one would need.

STEVE MURPHY: How can you, really lose weight, and you’re the right person to ask this, Doctor, can you really lose weight by basically eating the right kind of foods and doing a lot of exercise?

DR. SIMONINI: Eating proper foods, smaller portions, exercising, of course and that’s what you’re trying to do, you’re trying to reduce – I mean, it’s enough in the American, western diet that are bad foods such as trans fats, fast foods, things that have high fructose corn syrup – these are all out there that we can cut out. And exercise, I mean we’re becoming a sedentary people, between internet and TV and so on. You sit there and watch TV and watch the internet. So we can easily exercise, we can easily watch our diets, watch portion size, eat healthy kinds of foods. And it’s all about moderation and balance, a lot of people try to go for these extremes and I guess that’s part of the fast-food culture, we want an answer and result now. But basically by finding a diet that you can adhere to, by eating good carbohydrates, complex carbohydrates, by eating good fats, not the trans-fast, we’re talking about the polyunsaturated fats, and eating, you know, good amounts of protein and exercise, we can have a healthy diet and we can lose weight.

STEVE MURPHY: Some of the victims, if you will, the clients in the class that are represented by John, how are they adversely affected? I understand some of them lost their hair, correct?

DR. SIMONINI: Exactly, some of them complained of hair loss, some were complaining of palpitations, and remember when you go into a starvation diet, or starvation mode, a couple of things happen. There are hormonal imbalances which can occur which can lead to the hair loss, There’s also nutritional deficits which can happen which can lead to cardiac dysfunction, so there are a lot of dangers of – doing these acute diets, especially when you totally starve yourself of essential amino acids and essential vitamins and you make your body break down proteins to survive.

STEVE MURPHY: Very good. I want to thank you very much for sharing on the show.

DR. SIMONINI: Oh, my pleasure.

STEVE MURPHY: Please, we’ll have you back again. Thank you.

[Clips from the Mike & Juliet show, not transcribed]

STEVE MURPHY: I am very pleased to welcome Terry Lind, how are you?

TERRY LIND: Very good.

STEVE MURPHY: Thanks for coming to the show. We have seen some other testimony of some other victims that have taken the Heidi Diaz ‘Kimmer’ Diet. You’re one of the people that actually took this diet, right?

TERRY LIND: That is correct.

STEVE MURPHY: Run through our – run through your whole background about why you took the diet to begin with. What made you decide to buy it in the first place?

TERRY LIND: I had lost one hundred and three pounds using the Atkins program –

STEVE MURPHY: From what to what?

TERRY LIND: I went from two eighty two to one seventy eight.

STEVE MURPHY: Okay.

TERRY LIND: And that was about a fourteen month period of time. I did it on the Atkins program. At that point in time I hit a really stubborn plateau and I knew this Kimmer person from a free website and her whole thing is, plateaus don’t exist, they’re not real. If you’re not losing weight, you’re doing something wrong. Ad I liked what she said, because she seemed to have the information that would help me to start losing weight again.

STEVE MURPHY: So, you sent of your money?

TERRY LIND: Yes. Once Kimkins was up and running, I was a charter member, one of the very first people to sign up.

STEVE MURPHY: Charter member meaning you’re a lifetime member with these folks.

TERRY LIND: Well, that’s an interesting story in and of itself, because yes, she sells you a lifetime membership. But, the interesting part is, she determines the length of your lifetime.

STEVE MURPHY: I see. (Laughter)

TERRY LIND: So, she can terminate you –

STEVE MURPHY: That’s kind of dangerous! (Laughter)

TERRY LIND: -- she can terminate your membership for any reason or no reason.

STEVE MURPHY: So, basically, she – people who complained, she terminated their membership.

TERRY LIND: I didn’t even complain and she terminated my membership.

STEVE MURPHY: So you really believed in her and were severely disappointed.

TERRY LIND: Oh, yeah.

STEVE MURPHY: How long were you a charter member?

TERRY LIND: I was actually a member for, oh, more than a year, close to a year and a half.

STEVE MURPHY: And on her program did you lose weight, more weight?

TERRY LIND: I did. I only did her program for a month because I couldn’t stand it any more. I couldn’t stand the feeling, the sick feeling.

STEVE MURPHY: When you compare Atkins Diet to her program, did you find it similar?

TERRY LIND: It is similar, what her program is, really, it’s an amalgamation of Atkins and anorexia.

STEVE MURPHY: Yeah.

TERRY LIND: That’s basically what it is.

STEVE MURPHY: Yeah.

TERRY LIND: It’s (inaudible).

STEVE MURPHY: The Anorexia Diet Program.

TERRY LIND: Well, Atkins, Stillman’s and anorexia. It just combines a starvation plan and –

STEVE MURPHY: So, you were feeling sick –

TERRY LIND: Yes.

STEVE MURPHY: How were you feeling?

TERRY LIND: Nauseated.

STEVE MURPHY: All the time?

TERRY LIND: All the time.

STEVE MURPHY: And your hair loss --?

TERRY LIND: No, I didn’t have any hair loss because I didn’t do it long enough.

STEVE MURPHY: So, why did you decide to get off the program?

TERRY LIND: I couldn’t take it any more. I couldn’t take the, the deprivation.

STEVE MURPHY: What would you like to see happen to this woman?

TERRY LIND: I want to see her out of business.

STEVE MURPHY: And what else?

TERRY LIND: Well, I’d like to see her in jail.

STEVE MURPHY: Okay.

TERRY LIND: That would be the icing on the cake.

STEVE MURPHY: Is there a possibility of that happening, John?

JOHN TIEDT: Right now we produced evidence to both the FTC, the Attorney General’s office, and we are speaking to the District Attorney.

STEVE MURPHY: Okay.

JOHN TIEDT: And we expect and hope that criminal charges will be filed fairly soon.

STEVE MURPHY: Alright, very good. (To Terry Lind) Listen, I’m very glad you came here and shared.

TERRY LIND: Thank you.

STEVE MURPHY: Because your story’s important. In other words, don’t be duped on the internet.

TERRY LIND: Oh, amen. You can be anybody on the internet that you want to be, and Heidi Diaz has proved that.

STEVE MURPHY: Yeah. And we’re going to bring in Michael again to talk about being anybody on the internet, because it’s hard to check, isn’t it?

TERRY LIND: It is.

-- Begin Video Clip of November 12, 2007 Deposition of Heidi Diaz –

HEIDI DIAZ: These stories are compilations of actual stories, with names and a few other things changed to not reveal who they are. The photos do not … the photos do not belong to those stories.

JOHN TIEDT: So you claim that these stories are based on real stories that occurred (inaudible) –

HEIDI DIAZ: That people have told me over ten years, yes.

JOHN TIEDT: …over ten years. By the way, with regard to these real stories, do you have a copy of those real stories?

HEIDI DIAZ: No.

JOHN TIEDT: Do you keep a file anywhere, with any stories in it?

HEIDI DIAZ: I don’t.

JOHN TIEDT: (inaudible) that was used as a predicate for the stories that had the false photographs?

HEIDI DIAZ: No.

-- End Video Clip of November 12, 2007 Deposition of Heidi Diaz –

STEVE MURPHY: I think we’ve all learned one very important factor – you can be anybody you want on the internet, can’t you?

MICHAEL COHEN: That’s exactly right and that’s been part of the problem here, that Kimmer, Kimkins, she pretended to be someone she wasn’t, but how do you check? And it’s very difficult to know, because if you make up a person, there’s no background to check.

STEVE MURPHY: Right.

MICHAEL COHEN: A real person leaves traces, and you can Google them or search and you can learn about them. But if you make up someone from the get-go, there’s no way to check.

STEVE MURPHY: John, you’re a member of the California Health Care Fraud Task Force, is it?

JOHN TIEDT: Yes.

STEVE MURPHY: (Inaudible) this organization tries to investigate, you know, cases like Kimmer, Kimkins Diet, you know --?

JOHN TIEDT: Well, yeah, absolutely.

STEVE MURPHY: And follow them up.

JOHN TIEDT: And what we’ve seen is scams just like this. There are dietary supplements that claim to cure cancer. There are medical devices which claim to cure neurological diseases. There are phony treatments in other countries, such as Mexico, for cancer treatment. They’re being promoted on the internet. People are at their most vulnerable when they’re in their home, late at night, sometimes. They have a disease, they have a medical problem, and they want hope for their problem. And, unscrupulous people sell hope like this.

STEVE MURPHY: Alright.

JOHN TIEDT: And they do it fraudulently, so you have to be really careful. If something is too good to be true, it is, typically, on the internet. If you have a dietary supplement, a drug that’s proposed on the internet, or a medical treatment, run it past your doctor. That’s really important. Do some investigation. Don’t buy something on impulse on the internet.

STEVE MURPHY: Right. I think another problem you run into is that people want to believe these things that are too unbelievable.

MICHAEL COHEN: Right.

STEVE MURPHY: They want the miracles. I also want to point out that when I went to your website I saw that you have a lot of information about other scams on there, don’t you? About other cases and that sort of thing. So people, if they have a problem they can give you a call, right?

JOHN TIEDT: Oh, absolutely. We also list resources such as the FDA, FTC, if you have a particular medical product or drug that you question, you can go to my website and there are plenty of government resources that listed on that site.

STEVE MURPHY: Right, very good. Thanks for keeping up the good work.

MICHAEL COHEN: Thanks.

STEVE MURPHY: Thanks for being here. Thank you John.

JOHN TIEDT: Thank you.

STEVE MURPHY: And we’ll have you back again.

MICHAEL COHEN: Thank you.

JOHN TIEDT: Thank you.

-- Begin Video Clip of November 12, 2007 Deposition of Heidi Diaz –

JOHN TIEDT: Did you value your right to privacy over your customers’ right to know the truth about your weight loss results, as a result of using the Kimkins Diet?

HEIDI DIAZ: It may seem that way, that is not how I intended it, but I see now in retrospect that that is how it was probably taken.

JOHN TIEDT: So that’s a yes?

HEIDI DIAZ: Yes.

JOHN TIEDT: Okay.

-- End Video Clip of November 12, 2007 Deposition of Heidi Diaz –

STEVE MURPHY: Thanks for watching our show; you can get more information at www. insiderexclusive.tv. I’m Steve Murphy – thank you.

END TRANSCRIPT